Improving the Charge with a Bigger/Better Alternator
WHY DID I WANT OR NEED A BETTER ALTERNATOR? My 1984 242 Turbo originally came with a modest Bosch 55 amp alternator. In stock form, it was barely adequate from the beginning and like most light-duty Bosch alternators, it suffered from a significant voltage drop when a moderate load was
placed on it, especially at idle. And it suffered from a larger voltage drop when it got hot(and of course it sits close to the turbocharger).
The Volvo B21 red block engine was not originally designed to have a
turbocharger. The turbocharger was added much later and I guess the Volvo engineers did the
best they could. Not much can be done if you have a flame thrower next
to your alternator, unless you want to move the flame thrower or move
the alternator.
Moving the alternator may be easier for some people. I'll discuss that topic later below. For now I'm dealing with the alternator in the ORIGINAL LOCATION
and see what improvement can be made.
Installing an adjustable voltage regulator helped me live with this situation by bringing up the overall voltage output,
but an adjustable regulator can only do so much. The adjustable
regulator successfully increased my beginning (COLD) voltage from 13.8
volts to 14.4 volts. But the adjustable regulator could not increase amperage capability of the small alternator and it cannot overcome a high-temperature voltage drop (except of course in part by increasing the overall beginning cold voltage setting). The voltage output could drop by more than a volt when the alternator became HOT.
WHAT HAVE OTHER CARS MAKERS DONE TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM?
In the mid-1980's Porsche ran into a similar problem when they added a turbo to make the 944 Turbo. I had a discussion about similar heat-related voltage drops with a Porsche 944 Turbo owner. Porsche engineers did something extra to reduce the effect by adding a large cool air duct to bring air into the back of the alternator. This likely helped some during highway speeds, but it was still a big problem.
Volvo engineers would have had a more difficult time doing something like this, since the oil filter was in the way.
A side note that you may not know about is the location of the turbo in this Porsche engine. Have a closer look.
This engine is similar to the Volvo engine in that the intake manifold
is on the left and the exhaust is on the right. Unlike Volvo, the
Porsche engineers found NO ROOM on the right side to mount a turbo.
Instead, they ran a pipe from the exhaust manifold, UNDER THE ENGINE, to the left side and put the turbo under the intake manifold. Crazy stuff.
So you can feel fortunate there were no German engineers working on the Volvo turbo engine.
Volvo (Bosch) 55 Amp versus 100 Amp Alternator Size Comparison
Here's the bigger 100 amp Bosch alternator BELOW that I installed in my 242 many years
ago (circa 2003). Before I owned this car, I did the same installation on my old '84 245 Turbo way back in 1997. I simply wanted
something bigger and badder than what I had, since in both cars
I was using up the capacity of the
original 55 amp alternator and getting poor voltage, especially at idle. This 100 amp unit came from a
later 700 series Volvo I found in a salvage yard. Installing one of these was a popular mod
back then. The
belt size I used for the Bosch 100a
unit was in the range of 10
x 925 mm to 10 x 950 mm.
Information on factory 240
accessory V belt sizes used to be easier to find, but
it seems to have mostly disappeared from many useful
sites.
I put this info together many, many years ago for my
own 240 uses. I thought I would share it here.
ACCESSORY
Volvo PN
Size
Notes
Alternator
966908
10 x 925 mm
2 needed. 76-83 240. Also PN
977260.
Alternator
973538
10 x 918 mm
2 needed. 84-93 240. Also 9.5 x
918mm.
NOTE for all 240 Alternators:
If you're upgrading to a larger alternator which will needs more room, such
as the Bosch 100A unit, you might try using size 10 x 950 mm or up to the maximum size of about 10 x 975 mm.
AC to PS
967114
13 x 1075 mm
77-84 240. Also 12.5 x 1075 mm.
AC to PS
973535
10 x 850 mm
85-92 240.
AC to PS
977759
11.9 x 835 mm
93 240.
Crank to PS (no AC present)
966909
10 x 938 mm
77-89 240.
Crank to AC
967103
13 x 925 mm
76-84 240. Also PN 978678.
Crank to AC
979631
13 x 975 mm
85-92 240.
Crank to AC
979277
13 x 938 mm
93 240.
<<< Since the 100 amp case is physically BIGGER than the old 55 amp alternator, it causes interference with the large 2-pole oil pressure sender found in turbo 240s. That brass 45 degree fitting came standard on 240 Turbos.
<<< So generally the oil pressure sender needs to be re-positioned to make
room. Sometimes finding the room for it is difficult, but if the alternator can be swung out further from the engine (with longer belts) you can be successful.<<<THESE PICS
are from some other 240, not mine, but it shows how tight the space is
for the oil pressure sender when a big alternator is put in there.
Ultimately, I dealt with the cramped space a bit differently by trying a remote sender installation. It actually worked very well.
Here's a thread that goes over this in more detail: https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=192788
<<<
If you can find enough room, the ultimate position for this sender is
shown here, WITHOUT THE BRASS ELBOW, but this would require some planning to get the alternator
further away from the engine and/or a smaller alternator is needed.
<<< A longer belt MIGHT have helped this installation by swinging the alternator further from the engine,
which would make a little bit of extra room for that oil pressure
sender. But then you find that swinging the alternator further out moves the belts TOO CLOSE to the alternator mounting bracket (where that lower long bolt and bushing is).
A longer belt in this situation means the belt is going to hit that
bracket. So the longest belt in this situation is probably going
to be somewhere close to the 10 x 950 mm that I used (this about 25 mm longer than factory).
2 4 0 A L T E R N A T O R M O D P A G E
What about a DENSO?
<<< Here's the Nippon Denso alternator in a 240.It has become popular to install this smaller framealternator found in later 700/900 models. It's physically smaller than the above 100 amp Bosch. These Densos can
be found in 100 amp or higher capacity,
yet they don't really perform any differently or better than a large
Bosch at idle. They do fit better though.
There is usually a bit more room for theoil pressure sender with this more compact alternator.
INTRODUCTION OF THE MECHMAN ALTERNATOR
2010 Installation
In 2010 I decided that the 100 amp
Volvo Bosch alternator was not going to cut it.The biggest problem was how it charged at idle.
When running the air conditioning
(with a big electric primary puller fan and dual condenser
fans), voltage was suffering badly at idle
and much worse after the alternator started getting HOT. I had begun
using a big Ford puller fan, starting with a Ford T-bird fan and eventually settling on a Lincoln Mark
VIII fan that pulls 40 amps at full speed.
More on this big fan
setup can be found in my Electric Fan
PageHERE. With the Bosch 100 amp alternator, The difference
between COLD and HOT voltagewith a heavy load at
IDLE was 14.4 volts COLD to 12.4 volts HOT.
A FULL 2 VOLT DROP!
Also this situation was forcing me to
set the idle speed higher than it normally should be to help keep
voltage from going through the floor. Here's an IDLE SPEED temperature reading from my exhaust manifold a short distance from my alternator.
WHY DOES CHARGING VOLTAGE DROP SO MUCH
WHEN AN ALTERNATOR GETS HOT? You've noticed how much
voltage drops when your alternator gets hot, right? This is not
something that car alternator manufacturers want to talk about.
The reason is that automotive alternators are specifically engineered so
that they reduce output when they get hot. This is because heat is an enemy to an alternator and it can be a common reason for failure. So alternator engineers designed their alternators to
have the best chances of surviving the WARRANTY PERIOD.
Engineering them to reduce output when they get hot
is the answer to
that. So there's really not much else you can do with a standard
automotive
alternator if it's getting hot and dropping voltage. Volvo did add a
thin heat shield for the
240 Turbo. It probably helped a little. This is not as big a
problem in cars where the alternator is on the NON-exhaust side,
like in the Volvo 740 or 940.
In 2010 I was introduced to Mechman high performance alternators by a
Turbobricks member. I then talked with Mechman and I was assured
that
the custom unit I was buying would improve
voltage at idle. Mechman didn't have a Volvo alternator on the shelf, so they custom tailored their GM style alternator to fit the Volvo.
Skipping
ahead: The Mechman alternator did improve charging
at idle and overall output was much better,
but it STILL suffered
from a voltage drop when it got
hot. The voltage drop was not as bad as
the Bosch though, but I still had to resort to keeping my idle up a bit
higher than normal to keep charging voltage from dropping off.
I began thinking there might NEVER be a real
solution for a 240 Turbo with the alternator on the exhaust side and I thought
I might have to eventually move the
alternator to the other side of the engine
like on the Volvo 740.
I did this
custom Mechman alternator installation in 2010.
I began a discussion thread in Turbobricks back
when I did this, which helped me solve some issues.
That thread is here: https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=215613.
NOTE:
In August 2019 I learned that Mechman no longer offers CUSTOM FIT alternators like
this one below, which was customized (machined) to fit a Volvo. BUT, there are now solutions to make an un-modified high-output alternator fit your Volvo.
Email me if you have questions.
<<< Here's the Mechman alternator compared to the Bosch 100 amp. It
uses a large case GM Delco style housing that has been set up to
correctly
fit in the factory Volvo mounting location (while using a few spacers). I
was told this Mechman was a one-off 170 amp unit based on the Delco AD230 with a little custom machining to its case so it would bolt up similar to the Volvo Bosch alternator.
<<<
Here's the above Mechman unit installed.
The
belt size I used for the Bosch 100a
unit was 10
x 925 mm or 10 x 950 mm.
I was able to swing this Mechman slightly further from the
engine and the new belt size used was 10 x 965 mm.
<<<
Attaching a ground was a bit
different on this alternator. It didn't
have a ground stud on its case, so
the best solution (also suggested by Mechman) was pinching a ring
terminal against the caseunderneath as shown here.
It's a good solution as long as that bolt
doesn't tend to loosen over time. I used a good lock-nut on that long bolt to make sure it didn't vibrate loose.
The best charging results with this new alternator came after I added a dedicated 4
gauge ground cable and positive cable from the alternator directly to
the battery. You can see the results of numerous tests in the
above mentioned installation thread. I still
experienced a significant cold to hot voltage drop using this
alternator, but it was the best result so far for any alternator I had tried.
<<< WARNING: Don't use one
of these inexpensive disconnect devices on your battery
when using a high output alternator like this.
I had one of these disconnect devices on my
negative battery terminal. After
installing the Mechman I began experiencing
some strange intermittent momentary voltage
drops when the alternator was under load,
such as when the AC was on. It took a
while to figure it out and it's detailed in
the Turbobricks thread mentioned above. It turned out
that disconnect knob was creating some
resistance in the ground cable
circuit and the Mechman was sensitive to
it. I tossed it in the trash and made sure my battery ground was solidly connected.
2 4 0 A L T E R N A T O R M O D P A G E
Unintended Side Effects of a High-Performance Alternator: D E A L I N G W I T H B E L T S L I P
<<< Back to this photo: Have a good look at the belts wrapping around that pulley. There's just a little more than 90 degrees of belt wrap and the actual belt-to-pulley contact patch is small.
This
was really not a problem back when the weaker Bosch alternator was in there, but it began to
become more of a problem with a high output alternator.
I found that I needed to tighten the
alternator belts much more when adjusting. Putting too much
pressure on these belts can cause problems. That bolt in the block for the adjusting bracket has been known to break off(it happened to ME) and I had seen a few people with broken water pump pulleys (see thread here: https://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=323223).
Over-tightening can also prematurely wear out your water pump bearings and generally your belts
don't last as long as they should. They just wear faster and then they will begin
slipping again sooner.
MORE ON THIS ISSUE BELOW.
2 4 0 A L T E R N A T O R M O D P A G E
Belt Failure Concerns
More reasons why over-tightening is BAD
<<<This is a 240crank to AC belt. It failed in my 242 after about 300 miles of use because I had adjusted it too tight. The belt didn't actually break.
That
long corded string stuff was the embedded cord in the top-side of the
belt. The cord separated from the belt (or maybe snapped from too
much tension) and then eventually unraveled.
The belt eventually came off the pulley and I found it sitting in my
belly pan. Most of that corded material ended up wrapped around my AC
pulley. Once that
corded part separated, the belt lost the ability to stay tight. After losing that corded material, the
belt becomes more like a big, soft, stretchy rubber band.
Update 2019: Got a NEW Bigger/Better Mechman
NOTE:
In August 2019 I learned that Mechman no longer offers alternators like
this one below, which was customized to fit a Volvo. BUT, there are solutions to make any standard high-output alternator fit your Volvo.
Email me if you have questions.
<<<I got a new Mechman for the 242. It's actually physically about the same size as the previous Mechman, but it's much "beefier" on the INSIDE. This is a 170 amp 6 phase HAIRPIN STATOR alternator.
According to the literature below, it's based on a GM Delco CS130D. The Mechman part number was B8206170M. It
was then custom prepared by Mechman and they had done some minor
machining to the case so it would bolt up in the Volvo similar to a
normal Volvo alternator. It also got a double V-belt pulley.
Before getting this alternator I had no clue what a 6 phase hairpin stator
was. Now that I know, I'm here to say that if you upgrade to a
high-performance alternator, buy one like this with a hairpin stator.
I wish someone had educated ME about hairpin stators BEFORE I BOUGHT THAT LAST MECHMAN! There's info below that will show you how different a 6 phase hairpin stator looks compared to a normal type.
So, the hairpin design looks pretty and it looks like it means business,
but does it actually perform better?
MECHMAN 6 PHASE PERFORMANCE
Here's the dyno specs for my new 6 phase alternator, Mechman PN B8206170M. As you can see it puts out up to 145 amps at idle. That sounds impressive but what does that really mean? It means THIS: Now, when I first fire the car up cold, the voltage output is 14.8 volts (stable at idle and any RPM). As things warm up, it slowly settles to about 14.7 volts. So then if I start turning on accessories, like EVERYTHING you can think of: AC and high wattage headlights, etc. (I have 400 watts of lights), guess what. It STAYS STABLE AT 14.7 volts! Even when really hot and at IDLE! Remember this thing sits pretty close to the turbo, right?
Still 14.7 volts! NO VOLTAGE DROP WHEN HOT!
Impossible you say? I would have doubts too if I didn't see it for myself. So yes, if you can afford it, buy a 6 phase hairpin stator alternator.
Mechman
alternators are not cheap, but they have
very high quality. Be careful if you begin
looking at no-name or Chinese made
high-performance alternators.
Mechman made a comparison video showing
how cheap some of the fake "high-amp"
alternators can be:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5l4z3b2zHA.
Mechman also has options for adjustable
voltage if you need that. I found that it was NOT needed for my installation.
If you're
interested in Mechman alternators, you
can find them at:https://www.mechman.com/
2 4 0 A L T E R N A T O R M O D P A G E
Up next:
Seriously Dealing with that BELT SLIP Issue.
ALTERNATOR IDLER BRACKET PROJECT
CHIEF SYMPTOM:
The 240 alternator design doesn't offer enough BELT WRAP (or belt to pulley contact)
for an alternator that can push a heavy load. Volvo
engineers added a second belt to the 240, which makes it better, but when you exceed
the grip capacity for those belts, it's just going to slip.
<<<Photo of my B21FT Engine: After
installing this new Mechman high-performance alternator in 2019 I found
I needed a lot more belt grip. This was an immediate problem when running
my AC, which uses a big Lincoln Mark VIII puller fan and dual condenser pusher fans.
Keep in mind that this awesome alternator holds voltage at 14.7 volts, even under a heavy load. No other alternator I have ever tried could do that. The others would just reduce output instead. An alternator that simply drops voltage or reduces output will not need a strong belt grip.
So my idea was to design an IDLER PULLEY (back-side idler) to significantly increase belt wrap around that alternator pulley.
A back-side idler is NOT normally done with a V-belt
setup. Some people will tell you you shouldn't try it. The main
concern seems to be the potential for accelerated belt wear. Well I
already have that with a slipping alternator pulley. Plus so far all of
these concerns appear to be based on opinion, not actual experience.
So if this concerns you, wait and see how this turns out.
Observations and Rationalization:
There wasn't initially enough room between the crank pulley and
alternator for an idler pulley unless the alternator was moved over first.
A bracket that could also include a mounting point for the upper adjuster bracket would eliminate the need for a new longer custom upper adjuster bracket.
After a careful look, I could see there was actually decent room in a 240 to move the alternator over a few inches. Nothing seemed to interfere.
2 4 0 A L T E R N A T O R M O D P A G E
This kind of thing below has been suggested.
So let's pause for a minute and I'll explain why I DID NOT move toward a
SERPENTINE BELT SYSTEM. I've seen a few people do
variations of serpentine systems in Volvos, but so far I have not seen
anyone do it for a Volvo with alternator, water pump, power steering and AC using Volvo RED BLOCK accessories or with a PROPER TENSIONER PULLEY.
Sure, you can cobble together some pulley parts from other
cars and adapt them, but you will still need a custom crank pulley, or for a B230 you'll need a custom B230 crank
dampener (???). And you will STILL have to make all of the needed
bracketry to hold all those idler pulleys. In the end, will you actually get better belt-wrap on the
alternator than I can with my crazy idea?
This has also been suggested: "Why don't I just give up and change to a 740/940 style alternator mounting?" There's
nothing really wrong with changing your 240 to the 740/940 style
alternator mount. You just need the
parts. It requires new mounting brackets, maybe a new 740/940
style power steering pump and new or modified power steering
hoses and changes to the alternator cable/wires. The only question I have is about potential belt slip. Yes, this
arrangement offers more belt-wrap on the alternator pulley, but it allows for only ONE belt.
Would that ONE BELT be enough for a high output alternator like mine?
2 4 0 A L T E R N A T O R M O D P A G E
P R O T O T Y P E
I D L E R B R A C K E T D E S I G N
<<<Test Engine B230: So
I began playing with a bracket design to hold the idler pulley. I started with making a
prototype out of cardboard (not pictured). Then I transferred that info to plastic to make the pictured model.
This is PVC plastic I bought from McMaster Carr. It's easy to cut
or grind and can be bent with some heat. This material made it
easy to make adjustments as I tested fitment over and over and over. And
it was strong/rigid enough to mount an alternator and try out belts.
<<<Test Engine B230: For those who don't have a 240 close by to look at, here's the STOCK alternator pulley belt wrap situation.
Of course the alternator pulley slips.Why wouldn't it? The belt wrap is bad.
<<<Test Engine B230: Here's the plastic prototype bracket
mounted on an spare B230 engine with an
idler pulley. Making the bracket out of plastic gave me some
flexibility when I found adjustments needed to be made. Moving the
alternator a couple of inches
away from the engine does not seem to be a problem in a 240. There's plenty of
room in my 242. And the nice side-effect is there's a lot more room for the oil pressure sender.
<<<Test Engine B230: I wanted this new bracket to be able to use the stock top adjuster bracket if needed, so I added this mounting ear to the bracket for that.
<<< Then I had a working prototype made by a local metal fab shop using 1/4 inch steel plate.
<<< And I bought some steel spacers. These spacers are 1.5 inches long and 7/8 inch in diameter.PN 4GVD9 from Grainger.com.
<<<
Here's a photo showing how much thread usually goes into the block when
using a stock bracket. Between 13 mm (1/2 inch) and 18 mm (almost
3/4 inch) of the original bolt thread went into the block. This was
using an original M8 x 1.0 mm bolt that was 30 to 35 mm long (not counting the head). The stock alternator bracket is 15 mm thick.
Keep this in mind when deciding how long of a bolt you'll need when adding an idler pulley bracket and spacers.
In my case the spacers were 1.5 inches and the idler pulley bracket is
0.25 inch thick, with a combined total of 1.75 inch (44 mm). So if
you used the same size spacers, you would be using bolts with a length
of 75 to 80 mm (not counting the head).
<<<Test Engine B230: Here's the first test-fitting of the new steel prototype bracket.
You may have noticed that I changed to a different idler pulley in this photo. There's more info below on this change.
<<<Test Engine B230: A view of the back-side and mounting ear for the top adjuster bracket.
CHOOSING AN IDLER PULLEY
<<< This is the first idler pulley shown in the above pics. I chose it mainly because I wanted to use a flat pulley
with side flanges. It was not expensive. I had some concerns
about the durability of a pulley that was originally intended for a lawn
tractor. I
could not find any specs other than what I have listed here, so I have
no real reason for having reservations, except that it's not really designed for a car engine. So after thinking it over,
I decided instead to choose an idler pulley that was actually
designed for automotive use at high auto engine RPMs, etc.
<<< So
then I ordered one of these automotive idler pulleys. I
found it listed in the Dayco Pulley Guide (PDF below).
Dayco offers a good variety of pulleys and the below guide lists a lot of them, but relatively few are FLAT pulleys with side flanges. And even fewer are WIDE ENOUGH for TWO v-belts (it should be more than 1 inch (26 mm)wide). The majority of the pulleys Dayco offers are grooved
pulleys (all made for serpentine belt systems).
All pulleys considered for this project have sealed ball bearing
centers, but there is a variety of center bore diameters. Some in the
catalog have 10 mm center holes and some have 17 mm center holes (and a
few other center hole sizes).
Also I noticed the majority of the pulleys they offered had ONE center bearing, but a few had DUAL BEARINGS.
An automotive grade pulley with a single bearing would probably be just fine for this
project, but I decided since something with two bearing was available, I would to try the dual bearing pulley shown here.
Some people have expressed doubts about using a pulley with grooves. There was concern about the
back-sides of v-belts running on a grooved surface. After testing
for about 5,000 miles, my conclusion is it worked fine. More
details are below.
<<<Test Engine B230: After initial testing, I decided to make an adjustment to the position of the idler pulley. I raised the idler pulley up more in order to increase belt-wrap around the alternator pulley even more than I had. As you can see in this pic, there is now more than 180 degrees of belt-wrap. Long term testing was done on this configuration.
After installing this, I tested the slip resistance by putting
socket wrenches on the crank bolt and on the alternator pulley nut and
I applied torque. This test before with the stock setup
demonstrated a lot of slip on the alternator pulley. Testing with
this configuration showed that the alternator pulley now actuallyhas slightly MORE GRIP than the crank pulley. This is a big change!
<<<Installed for testing on B21FT: In installed the bracket in my 240 Turbo for long-term road testing and I put thousands of miles on it with no problems.
Essentially this has completely SOLVED all belt slip problems.
Installed on B21FT: <<< Lets discuss THE GROOVES ON A GROOVED IDLER PULLEY
The only effect that has been caused by the grooved pulley is found in
this photo. The grooves etched some lines onto the backs of the
belts. This began to appear after only a few miles and after 5,000 miles it has changed very little. It may look less than ideal, but it has not become a problem. Changing to a SMOOTH pulley would probably make this go away. I'll be trying one out below.
<<<Test Engine B230: I
don't think the lines above made by the grooved pulley will be a
problem, but
if it becomes unwanted, a switch to this type of belt would probably
make it a non-issue. I bought a set of these belts, but I have not used them.
This belt above is a Dayco Top-Cog belt.
It comes as a Top-Cog as shown with a normal bottom 'V' section in 0.44 inch (11 mm) width (left side belt in BELOW photo). This 11 mm width will fit the 10 mm wide alternator pulley in a 240 just fine.
The belt below right side belt is a "Gold Label" Top-Cog, which has an added bottom cog 'V' design. This style is only available in 0.53 inch (13.5 mm) wide or wider. This belt looks like it would be too wide for a 10 mm pulley, but can be used on wider pulleys.
Found this info while searching, so I thought I would add it here in case it becomes useful:
Kevlar / Aramid belts
are created to be stronger than standard v-belts. In a Kevlar belt, the
normal polyester cords are replaced with the much stronger Kevlar
cords. When using machinery with a back side idler, the belt takes a
beating and normal belts can wear out faster. Kevlar drive belts are
made to last longer in these situations. https://www.vbeltsupply.com/kevlar-corded/3lk
<<<So
after about over 5,000 miles of very successful testing I decided I
would try out a smooth pulley and see how things go. Stay tuned.
This pulley only comes with a 17 mm center bore.
I have set up this bracket to use a smaller bolt, so I bought one of
the below pictured bushings and installed it into the center of this pulley.
These bushings have a 17 mm outside diameter and a 10 mm center bore and
they are a nice snug press-fit into the center bore of the 17 mm
bearing on this pulley. No press needed though. I just tapped it in. Cost was small for the bushing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AZ0OPPQ/
I plan to have some of these brackets made in a
limited production run.
The final design will be more like this
images here below and there will be a lot of adjustability built in. So if you're interested in an idler pulley bracket, let me
know. The production number will depend on how many people are interested. Email me if you're interested.
